The Agony Column

An Interview with Ex-CIA Attorney John Rizzo



Note: This program was originally broadcast February 2, 2014.

Rick Kleffel speaks with the man who was once the CIA’s top lawyer – John Rizzo, about the torture tapes, enhanced Interrogation techniques, dirty assets, drone strikes and about his new book, Company Man.

“Even inside the bubble, you find yourself fairly alone…” — John Rizzo

Rick Kleffel wrote:
I was most interested in the historical aspects of the story, and that’s where I took much of our conversation. There’s a very nice JFK connection in the book, and a scene that is impeccably described. We talked about Iran-Contra, and the part he would have willingly played had he been in the wrong place at the right time. All through the conversation, I have to say that John Rizzo was right there. I think that he was relieved to talk with someone who had read the book, and he was clearly happy to discuss events in the book that were not the focus of recent media attention.

Interview with Alan Furst



While Alan Furst’s current novel is ‘Midnight in Europe,’ at this point in his career, you can’t really talk about a single novel. Make no mistake. You can read ‘Midnight in Europe’ by itself, having never read anything else by the man, cold, and it will knock you out. It’s a superb novel. But Furst is working on a unique literary form, a multi-volume version of a story in the style of a huge Russian novel.

“..but it was as nothing compared to the noise of planes landing…”
—Alan Furst

In conversation about his latest, I definitely wanted to open it up, to explore how Furst builds this detailed world, novel by novel. He told me some very interesting secrets that took me back to my time as a child, reading the Compton’s Encyclopedia. In retrospect, it seems that the hardbound encyclopedia has much more worth than one might presume, as it captures the world in a moment. It may give you some valuable information about the world, to be sure, but is certain to offer invaluable and un-reproducible information about the moment.


Interview with Author Bill Bryson


This program was originally broadcast November 11, 2013.


“It was the most amazingly eventful and magical summer…”
—Bill Bryson

Bill Bryson’s new book  ”One Summer: America, 1927″ digs into a transitional year in the history of the United States. His past books include  ”A Walk in the Woods,” “A History of Everything” and several other nonfiction books. KUSP’s Rick Kleffel spoke with Bryson about how he selects the subjects for his books and the importance of Charles LIndbergh to his latest.

Read more.

Colson Whitehead and His Turn in the ‘World Series of Poker’



By Rick Kleffel

Incandescent Memories of the Future

On the face of it, the world beats words, hands down, every time. Our lives are so immersive, so intense that it seems anything less, no matter how powerful the art, simply cannot conjure up reality. This would seem to be doubly true for Las Vegas and the world of high-stakes poker. Yet, one paragraph into Colson Whitehead’s ‘The Noble Hustle,’ you’re reminded of just how powerful — and fun! — language can be.

Fun is the key word here, it’s important, it matters, and not just because Whitehead keeps the reader entertained. It’s important because Colson Whitehead’s latest conjures up not just fun but serious fun. This is life and death stuff wrestled down the page with mere words. This is the triumph of the Lilliputians over Gulliver, this is hardcore wild-side writing. This is bright lights in black and white.


Geoff Dyer: ‘Another Great Day at Sea’

Author Geoff Dyer

Author Geoff Dyer

By Rick Kleffel:

I was intrigued with ‘Another Great Day Day At Sea’ pretty much from the moment it landed in my hands. Geoff Dyer’s prose voice was delightful and the subject seemed so odd and yet so obviously fascinating.

This wasn’t my first experience with Dyer, though. I’d read another odd little book by him titled ‘Zona,’ about one of my favorite movies of all time, Stalker, by Andrei Tarkovsky, based on the novel ‘Roadside Picnic’ by Boris and Arkady Strugatsky.

“..but it was as nothing compared to the noise of planes landing…”
—Geoff Dyer

I did manage to keep my focus (mostly) on the matter directly to hand, and talking about Dyer’s book was as fun as reading it. Here’s an interview where hearing the author’s voice will enable you to hear him speak when you read the book. We did make certain to talk about the book in a manner that left reading the book more appealing. Once you hear Dyer speak, you’ll hear him tell you the whole story as you read the book.

dyer-another_great_day_at_seaFor such a small book, there was a lot to talk about and the hour flew past. Dyer was a great sport, having just left one interview with the superstars to come talk with the podunk local guy.

I have to say Dyer was a bit surprised when I brought up ‘Zona,’ but there are not a lot of people who even know about the movie, much less revere it in the manner that Dyer (and I) do. Dyer’s book is a fascinating look at the power of art, and a hall of mirrors for anyone who is interested in how art makes you, well — human.

Interview with Kent A. Kiehl

Author Kent A. Kiehl. Photo: Mark Petersen Photography

Author Kent A. Kiehl. Photo: Mark Petersen Photography

Review by Rick Kleffel:

Kent Kiehl begins ‘The Psychopath Whisperer‘ with his first day of work as a twenty-three year-old graduate student; he’s entering the Matsqui maximum-security prison near the town of Abbotsford, British Colombia to interview the prison’s most violent inmates. “Prison is never boring,” he tells us. As this utterly compelling books proves, for young neuroscientists studying the brains of psychopathic killers, that is certainly the case.

‘The Psychopath Whisperer’ is a fascinating book on a variety of levels. The science is groundbreaking, the characters are riveting, Kiehl’s story arc as a young scientist making his mark in the field is involving, and the way Kiehl brings together all the threads for a stunning denouement is authentically thrilling.

Interestingly enough, for a fellow who speaks with those whom he describes as having a “flat aspect,” Kiehl’s prose is itself rather flat of aspect. It seems a bit odd at first, but as he goes on to interact with and describe some of the most vile humans one might hope never to meet, the reasoning behind this choice, if it is indeed one, becomes quite clear. There’s a clinical precision at work in the prose for this book that is actually quite appealing. The upshot is that Kiehl’s voice is unique and well served by his prose.


Small Pieces Of The Madness Of This World – Lorrie Moore / “Your Inner Fish” With Niel Shubin


9780307594136_custom-944489ff003da542eeadae562662e441e0fdd603-s2-c85Lorrie Moore discusses the stories in her new collection, Bark, which look at post-divorce hysteria, middle-aged dating and classic grifter themes.  Stories full of desperation and sadness with characters who exist in the context of modern times. Despite their darkness, these stories are also deeply humorous. Laugh until you cry or let them both happen at the same time.












14_EP02_SAThen in the second half of the show it’s an interview with University of Chicago Paleontologist and evolutionary biologist Neil Shubin from our archives. Shubin’s first book was Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body. Now he’s hosting a short PBS series titled “Your Inner Fish.” In this interview he discusses the book and how human biology reflects an evolutionary process visible in fossils.

Annie Jacobsen Files ‘Operation Paperclip’

Author Annie Jacobsen

Author Annie Jacobsen

Posted by Rick Kleffel:

My interview with Annie Jacobsen about ‘Operation Paperclip’ proved to be something of an operation itself. Her stopover in Northern California was brief, and the schedule was pretty tight. We were supposed to talk on a holiday; but the flight was delayed.

After more back and forths on my part than an episode of Get Smart, we finally managed to meet at KQED, for great sound superb ambience and a great conversation. As ever, my goal in the conversation was to give readers a sense of how the book feels to reading without giving them the feeling that they have already read it. And while generally, I might have tried to keep the discussion a bit more abstract, I could not resist asking Jacobsen about putting together what were for me some of the key scenes that read like something out of a John LeCarré novel.

And for this I have to here thank Jacobsen for her ability to both convey the sense of the scenes and some of the specifics while also being able to circle back and offer readers a behind-the-scenes glimpse of just how she managed to do what she did. What you can’t help but hear is her passion for both the subject itself and the process as well.

Author Riane Eisler’s Vision of Human Culture and a New Economy


eislerRiane Eisler discusses her books “The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future” and “The Real Wealth of Nations: Creating a Caring Economics.” Eisler is speaking in Santa Cruz next week.

Rick Kleffel writes:

Starting with Paleolithic and Neolithic archaeology and reaching into the 20th century and beyond, Eisler is intent on toppling hierarchical society, what she calls the “Dominator Model” and replacing it with the Shared Partnership model, which she demonstrates is neither new nor innovative, but instead, the natural order.

Also on the program, the CIA’s top lawyer for 7 years, John Rizzo, talks about the NSA’s surveillance program.

David Sedaris – How His Book Tours Influenced his Latest Collection



David Sedaris talks with Rick Kleffel about how his book tours influenced his latest collection of essays and short stories – Let Explore Diabetes with Owls.

About the interview, Rick Kleffel wrote:

It will come as no surprise that David Sedaris is easy to talk to. When we sat down to discuss ‘Let’s Explore Diabetes With Owls,’ we were both quickly to our comfort zones; being crabby old men complaining about stuff and gawky kids talking about weird things.